Trinity Proof Texts
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John 10:25-39 If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me. "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp. |
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The argument stated: |
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Comments:
Three interpretations of what the passage is saying:
I. The Correct Trinitarian paraphrase/interpretation:
"When I said, "I and the Father are one", you should rightly stone me if I were a mere creature. But I am not a creature. But Ps 82 is valid scripture, just as it reads and it calls wicked judges "gods" and "sons of God" on the basis that they were acting as agents of God in regulating the Law of Moses. What this Ps 82 is saying, is that God Almighty Himself is the one who calls these creatures, "gods". Because this is so obviously what Ps 82 teaches, some of you have rejected it as corrupted and invalid scripture. But this scripture is valid and it says what it means because scripture is divinely protect by God from the very corruption you have imagined. Rejecting this text as scripture is not the solution. You have not yet comprehended what this text is saying. God was foreshadowing by way of antitype, the fact that certain men can function among humanity as though they were God himself. Acting on behalf of God as his divinely commissioned agent. This is exactly my role today as I stand before you. I am not God's agent in regards to mere civil law, but in all spiritual things. If the human judges of Ps 82 can be called "gods" because they were appointed agents of God, how much more should the divine Son of God be called this same title "god"? If they wear the title it by privilege, how much more should I, Jesus wear it by nature, as my inherent right!II. Another Trinitarian paraphrase/interpretation which we reject:
I have plainly told you that I am uncreated God, equal to the Father but you reject what I say because only My true sheep can comprehend it. There is nothing I can say to convince you because you are evil and hard hearted. So rather than arguing with fools, I am going to start a theological fire that will cause you to fight among yourselves and take the attention off me, allowing me to bow out. If God calls wicked men who act as God's agents "gods", why is it wrong for me to claim something less (a son of God), since I too am a sent agent of God? Forget, for argument sake, that I have openly taught you I am uncreated God and lets find agreement on a lower level first. Until you can comprehend this easier concept, I find it a waste of time trying to convince you of the more difficult truth that I am uncreated God.III. False interpretation of Arians: (Jehovah's Witness, Christadelphian)
"Your charge of blasphemy is irrelevant since they were called "gods" and I have claimed to be something lower than "a god", namely "a son of God". By this I am making it clear that I am not claiming to equal with the Father. I am merely like these other men whom God calls "a god" or "a son of God". You have misunderstood me because I certainly am a creature just like you and am not fully divine or equal to the Father. If you were my sheep, you would understand what I am really saying and not try to stone me or charge me with blasphemy." The Jews wrongly understood Jesus' words "I am God's Son", to mean that He was teaching he was "THE God" equal to the Father as Trinitarians interpret. In fact Jesus was actually teaching he was a lower ranking "a god" and it was this they misunderstood. If they had comprehended that Jesus was merely claiming to be a lower ranking, created demi-god, the Jews would never have been angry or tried to stone Jesus.Anti-Trinitarian rebuttals:
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Rebuttal #1 by Anti-Trinitarian Modalists (United Pentecostal Church, UPCI) |
When Jesus said in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one.", it proves that Jesus is the same person as the Father. |
Anti-Trinitarian Modalist rebuttal refuted |
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Rebuttal #2 by Anti-Trinitarian Modalists (United Pentecostal Church, UPCI) |
If unity of purpose is all that is meant by "I and the Father are one", the Jews would not stone Jesus, for Moses was one in purpose with God in the Old Testament. |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
Jesus said more than "I and the Father are one". Jesus also said, "My Father", Yet the Jews replied in John 8:41 "we have one Father, even God." So Jesus calling God his Father was not viewed by them as fundamentally offensive or a claim of Deity. It is the statements like: "I give eternal life to MY sheep" combined with the other statements that caused the Jews to view, "I and the Father are one" to be a claim of deity! We have not problem admitting that taken by itself, "I and the Father are one" would not likely be viewed as a claim of deity, but taken together with the other statements, it certainly was. Jesus clearly made claims that only deity would claim and the Jews got the distinct impression that Jesus was claiming to be God. "You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." A claim Jesus DID NOT DENY! |
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Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal #3 |
The Jews mistakenly thought that Jesus was claiming to be God and that is why they wanted to stone him. |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
In fact the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for two things: blasphemy and making himself out to be God. Did they also misunderstand the blasphemy... that Jesus "gives eternal life" to men? Not at all! In fact they fully understood this to be something only God can do. Only God is the source of eternal life! But if you stop and think about this Jesus had done too good a selling job teaching the Jews he was more than an ordinary man. When Jesus says to the Jews "you are not my sheep" was this because they had too high an opinion of Jesus? Talk about overdoing the Job! This means that the Jews first impression of Jesus was too high, rather than too low! Jesus might have said to them, "downgrade your first impression of who you think I, (THE God) to what I really am (a god)". Only a Jehovah's Witness could think this makes sense! Remember, the Jews were expecting the messiah. A prophet designated by God who could perform miracles was a well accepted long-standing tradition. But Jehovah's Witnesses would have us believe that Jesus was unable to convey Himself in a way that would not confuse his listeners that he was not divine! They would not stone him for even being a created angel. They believed in angels! So again we say, it is ridiculous for to suggest that the Jews "were not Jesus' sheep" because they walked away with the impression that Jesus was more than he claimed to be rather than less. They fully understood what Jesus was saying, but rejected Jesus claims of being God! |
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Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal #4 |
"I and the Father are one" is not a claim of deity. |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
Then why did the Jews interpret it that way? Whose fault was it? The Jews for misunderstanding, or Jesus' for being a poor teacher? No! The Jews correctly understood this to be a claim of death! |
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Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal #5 |
All Jesus was really claiming is that Jesus was "in step with God", not that He was divine. |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
This makes no sense because the Jews thought that they were "in step with God". At the very worst, they would have viewed him as the new kid on the block, as competition on an equal playing field as creatures. The fact they wanted to stone him shows they thought Jesus was claiming to be God. The Jews were accustomed to inspired prophets and angels who were "in step with God". If this is all he were saying, they never would have wanted to stone him. They wanted to stone him because he was making a claim of deity that no man or angel had ever made before! |
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Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal #6 |
We note there is no article before the theon (God) in 10.33 so this could be translated "a god." The Jews said, "because you being a man make yourself a god." Jesus wasn't claiming to be THE God. |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
Then the Jews correctly understood what Jesus was teaching and this was exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, yet they still wanted to stone Him! This would prove that Jesus WAS claiming to be A GOD. Sounds like Jn 10:33 it is right out of the Watchtower! Jehovah's Witnesses are illogical and hypocritical because they want to claim the Jews misunderstood Jesus on one hand, yet argue he was merely claiming to be "A GOD" on the other. The truth is Jesus was claiming to be equal to the Father, and that is why they wanted to stone Jesus. |
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Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal #7 |
Does not Jesus' own use of the Bible show there are other "gods" or degrees of being "god"? How can one argue that Jesus thought himself The God when he only claims to the "the Son of God"? |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
Now we see the full acceptance of the false doctrine of Henotheism that Jehovah's Witnesses believe. The ugly thorn bush of the Jehovah's Witnesses polytheism is forced into full light! Remember the expression "sons of God" is used 6 times in the Old Testament in addition to "sons of the most high" in Ps 82:6. Full discussion of henotheism refuted. |
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Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal #8 |
John records what the Jews mistakenly thought, not what Jesus was actually teaching. The Jews misunderstood many things and John merely records this misconception. |
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted |
It has completely escaped the notice of Arians that there are no examples of where Matthew, Mark Luke or John ever record a misconception without pointing out that it was an error. Jn 21:22-23 is an example of where a misconception was corrected by John, the narrator. When they thought Jesus was a spirit after resurrection, (Like Jehovah's Witnesses believe) Jesus corrected them: Jn 24:39. John 5:18 is not an example of uncorrected error with regards to the charge Jesus broke the Sabbath. |
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By Steve Rudd